Duke of Lancaster

[Nooks]

I've tried to follow the history of The Duke's time at LLanarch-y-mor. I might not have got this exactly right but as far as I can understand, she was brought there under the full approval of the authorities in power at the time. Soon after the market and fun ship was established there was some re-drawing of administrative lines of the boroughs in the area. The new council whom the area then came under already had their own municipally run market, and saw the fun ship and its facilities as unnecessary competition. Ever since then the council have striven to keep the attraction at bay.

Take a look at dukeoflancaster.net (I think the website is now dormant but it is still available to view) It shows a series of photographs of a notice board near the site detailing the shennanigans of the licencing applications and everything else that has gone on over the years - interesting reading for anybody who has questions on the subject.

It's a pity that dukeoflancaster.net wrapped up so early. They had been in contact with the owners and at one point I thought they might actually get somewhere. (oh and by the way, to anybody who knows my real name, may I state that it wasn't me at the meeting they detail, but someone else who happens to have a mother with a similar sense of humour to mine).

[Big Ron]

[.
It's a pity that dukeoflancaster.net wrapped up so early. They had been in contact with the owners and at one point I thought they might actually get somewhere. (oh and by the way, to anybody who knows my real name, may I state that it wasn't me at the meeting they detail, but someone else who happens to have a mother with a similar sense of humour to mine).[/quote]

I give in I can't figure that one out!

[TheDuke]

I have spent many hours researching on this subject and I manage to discover a huge amount of information about the ship.

The ship was sold to Solitaire Liverpool (clothing company still in business today), the ship was on the way to the chop shop and was saved just in time by Solitaire.

10th August 1979 the Duke of Lancaster arrived at her final resting place, a mere 75 miles from Holyhead, she was then sailed into Llanerch-y-Mor, near Mostyn and basically driven into the beach, where the hull was then encased in concrete (2/3 of the hull is encased) and she became know as the Mostyn Fun Ship, her life as a fun ship didnt start until 1981 after much renovation/preparation work was completed.

Conversion for use as a 300-room hotel did not appear to go beyond the preliminary planning stage and her use as "The Fun Ship" was relatively short-lived and was subsequently closed to the public.

Over time, the vessel has become increasingly derelict, or so the story goes, however, I know for a fact that Solitaire was using it a warehouse for the clothing manufacturing, this fact is even advertised on their website complete with a glorious looking picture, which is clearly very outdated, but I suspect it was possibly one the first pictures taken of her after berthing at Llanerch-y-Mor.

In my research I managed to speak on the phone to the PA of the owner of the company/ship, the PA is a guy and the owner is a female, I forget her name though

They said that they have always had huge ideas for the ship, but always been fought back by the local council who have refused many planning applications including one application which also included the construction of a new access road to allow the required emergency services to gain access in the even of an emergency.

Solitaire have no intentions of scrapping the ship, but the future does look very bleak for this stunning ship.

Here is the information that can be found on Companies House about the company and known aliases and previous names:

The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time:

Name & Registered Office:
EMPIREWISE LIMITED
2ND FLOOR SAXON HOUSE
HERITAGE GATE FRIARY STREET
DERBY
DE1 1NL
Company No. 01372601

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 09/06/1978

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):7499 - Non-trading company
Accounting Reference Date: 31/03
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/03/2007  (DORMANT)
Next Accounts Due: 31/01/2009
Last Return Made Up To: 30/12/2007
Next Return Due: 27/01/2009
Last Members List: 30/12/2007

The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time:

Name & Registered Office:
SOLITAIRE (LIVERPOOL) LIMITED
2ND FLOOR SAXON HOUSE
HERITAGE GATE FRIARY STREET
DERBY
DE1 1NL
Company No. 01859341

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 29/10/1984

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):[/b]5241 - Retail sale of textiles 5242 - Retail sale of clothing
Accounting Reference Date: 31/03
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/03/2007  (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/01/2009
Last Return Made Up To: 12/06/2008
Next Return Due: 10/07/2009
Last Members List: 12/06/2008
Previous Name: BLUEKEEL LIMITED

Also I know that people say that the ship is not encased in concrete, but trust me she is, also they sunk a couple of concrete barges on the water side of the ship to prop her up.

Without concrete the ship would of moved on her own accord by now, as just think what 30yrs of erosion can do to an unmaintained structure which is sitting in salt water 

The hull is completely nackered and so hopes of ever seeing her sail again is extremely unlikely although not impossible, as anything is possible if you have enough money

I have found a series of pictures which show the state of the ship today, and also shows the concrete surrounding the front of the ship, anyone who has been close to the shop will know that she is solid as a rock:














No those people who say the ship is not encased in concrete, please look closely at this pic and then tell me there is no concrete there? The concrete fits perfectly to the shape of the hull and comes around both sides, the only way they could achieve such a perfect fit would be to pour the concrete once the ship is in its final resting place.

I will keep following this thread, as I like to think that I know an awful lot about the ship, as I have been fascinated by it since I was a tiny tot

Rgds,

The Duke

[Gribbie]

Thanks for the info and piccies TheDuke - very interesting.

[TheDuke]

Wow guys, I have just found out that: It would appear that Solitaire Liverpool have ceased trading, this could mean a few things depending on how you look it.

Marine Salvage is the one that first springs to mind, although to salvage any vessel you have to meet three very important requirements:

1) The vessel must be in peril
2) The services must be rendered voluntarily (so in other words there is no contractual obligation)
3) Finally the salvage must be successful

Well I would definitely say that the ship is in peril, as she is very much grounded into her fixed position and also she is still technically at least partially in water so she is still at sea or least in the sea

So I think that a salvage operation could be launched successfully and legally, however, the costs involved in attempting such an operations would be very high.

I think that a charity should be setup to raise funding; as the ship is right next to the solid land, she could be supported and then the concrete dug away, freeing her from her 30yrs holding place.

Raising the ship up enough to make repairs to the hull and then she would float once again, once she is floating, she could easily be towed into a dry dock and full restoration work carried out.

Maybe an organisation such as the princes trust would be willing to put up funding to save the last remaining Duke Ship

Very much food for thought and very much a possibility 

[Big Ron]

How sure are you that Soiliter have ceased trading?

[TheDuke]

Big Ron: I check companies house for the information.

[Big Ron]

The Duke.
 I think you are wrong! Checked companies house and no mention of Solitaire (Liverpool) ltd going bust or ceasing trading.

[Reenie]

Big Ron,

Play nice please.

thanks.

The Duke, Welcome to our lovely site. Do an intro and say Hiya ??

Reenie.

[TheDuke]

The Duke.
 I think you are wrong! Checked companies house and no mention of Solitaire (Liverpool) ltd going bust or ceasing trading.

Ron, your right it doesnt directly say that they have ceased trading, but it would suggest that they have, check out the dates of last activity for accounting etc

Also Solitaire website appears to have vanished offline, further indication that they may have ceased trading, I think if they have, its only just recently and so...

[Big Ron]

Sorry Duke but Solitaires accounts are not due until 31/01/2009.

Maybe someone could arrange for a preservation order to be put on her.  Any thoughts on that anyone??

[Nooks]

Does Solitaire have any connection with the market that operates ajacent to the site?

[Big Ron]

Yes. It is know as the Solitaire market. They run a large ladies fashion close stall and a few of the other stalls.

[Porty]

Yes. It is know as the Solitaire market. They run a large ladies fashion close stall and a few of the other stalls.

Do you mean fashion for large ladies maybe they make good sails  .

[Big Ron]

No fashion for ladies porty not fashion for portly ladies

[Nooks]

 

[lhowardpask]

I've heard so many stories about the ship recently; that it was going to be scrapped, that people are living on board, something to do with drugs, sealed off areas of the ship (that urbexers can't get to), and loads more wonderful and crazy stories, almost like legands!
 I was at the meeting earlier this year and although i've been terribly ill most of this year since then I'm not sure what has happened to dukeoflancaster.net. I think things just fizzled out, as there was not enough interest and people realised what a big project it was.
 Anyway the question people should be asking is What can the ship be used for? If you can't think of an answer to that then theres no point in digging it out and re-floating her. I doubt she'll ever be used as a fully working ship again as it's a steamship (apparently), it'd be too costly to actually run! Although it would be nice to see!
As for concrete, explain how the ship used to rise and fall with the tide, with the silt gathering underneath till it settled? I know the barge was added in later but i've been told that a lot of the concrete doesn't touch the hull.
 I've seen pics of the top deck and inside it seems to be in better condition that it looks, it's rusty and would need patching up in places and possibly the wood replacing on the top decks. I doubt if the engines, generators etc would still work.
It is costing the Rowley family a fortune to keep, with security and other fees. One member of the family said it was just a black hole for them. The family said it is too costly to cut up due to asbestos (as someone else said), and they have a long history with the ship, so there are sentimental reasons as well.
 If restoration is the best option, I have suggested a charity be set up. The ship could get funding from the Heritage Lottery Fund as they has a specific historic ships bit. Is the ship historic? I dunno, it is the last of its kind i know that much. Princes fund could help too perhaps but funding from both requires the ability to find funds elsewhere such as donations etc.
Again it all depends on what should and i guess what CAN be done with the ship!

[Big Ron]

Hi  LHOWARDPASK,
I think a few people have wondered what happend at this meeting as nothing was ever added to the Dukeoflancaster.net web site.
What sort of ideas did you come up with? Surely if you took the trouble to go that far you must have put forward ideas to the ships owners. I just wondered what their response had been?

[TreFFS]

Are there any regulations concerning the disposal of redundant ships that can no longer be put to some use?

I assume they cannot simply be towed out to sea and scuttled away from any shipping lanes.

What would it cost to have the D of L scrapped?  And what would the value of the scrap metal / electrics / fittings etc be (roughly)?

[Nooks]

Asbestos or no asbestos, I think if somebody in authority wanted her scrapped then she would be scrapped - on site! You will recall the poor 'Riverdance' that foundered off Blackpool earlier this year. She's all gone now, cut up by a local scrap merchant whom most probably had little previous experience of a project of this size. She wasn't a new ship, not as old as DoL but still built during the reign of asbestos. At the current time, The old Falklands veteran, HMS Intrepid (built in 1964) is being recycled just across the water in Liverpool. Gotta be loads of the white fibre in her!

I assume they cannot simply be towed out to sea and scuttled away from any shipping lanes.

Sometimes they do this! about a year ago, an old frigate was scuttled off the south coast (can't remember where unfortunately) to create an artificial reef which it is hoped will attract marine life to the area. I think she was more or less stripped to a shell first though!

Lhowardpask, I echo Big Rons questions about what happened at the meeting? I assume that Willow - the site founder - obviously felt he could not continue with the project for whatever reason and nobody else was in a position to take on the upkeep of the site. There were many people out there following Dukeoflancaster.net who didn't feel they could help at the time but may have come on board later on. It is a shame the appreciation society seemed to fall at the first hurdle. Our own website here initially ran for months with about 4 members, - look at it now! Any news would be greatly appreciated!

[gazdon]

hi my name is gareth perks and i was at the meeting the meeting was ok we put names to faces but not much has happened since the meeting i did bring up the subject on radio shropshire about a month ago i dont no how well it done as i was at work at the time i have a harland & wolff photo of her on her sea trials also a very large add poster 50 x 40 inch but needs to have a frame made for it and other related stuff so still very intrested in her

[Big Ron]

Hi Gareth
Thanks for replying.
You have obviously read what has been said above.
Go on fill us in on the blanks.

[Blober]

How does one go about setting up a charity?

[Big Ron]

I don't think the DOL would qualify as a charity but she is old, very old by ships standards and must qualify as something. If all or most of her internal fittings are 1960's spec she is or must be a real collectors peace. How on earth could this be allowed to be simply scrapped. She is probably one of this countries unrecognised treasures.
I would go further and say she is probably one of the most photographed ships in the UK which very few people know about!